Godane Interview

Here is my full interview with Sheikh Muktar Abdirahman Godane, the leader of Somalia's al-Shabab rebel movement. Only one quote made it into a story I recently wrote for Time.com.

To me, the most interesting part is at the very end, where Godane essentially acknowledges that his group is using Islam as a tool, and that al-Shabab's fight has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with clan rivalries.

Talk about al-Shabab's connection to Jihadi groups outside Somalia.

Yes, we are well connected to the other Muslim jihadist organizations _ in Afghanistan, Iraq and many others.

 Where does your money come from?

We have different sources of funds. A rich Muslim person may raise money from his savings or properties. To fund the jihad for the sake of Allah is the best fundraising there is. We also have rich Muslim Somalis and non-Somalis, who are members of the al-Shabab. We also have funding sources from local Somali NGOs under the so-called United Nations and international NGOs. Members of our organization own local NGOs so the funds to be used for the organization will approved by the all concerned bodies of al-Shabab.

Describe your plans for the future.

Our plan is to remove the anti-Muslim forces and Sheikh Sharif's fake TFG very soon, inshallah. We want to establish a real Islamic government but don't want to be joined by non-Muslims. We are not like Sheik Sharif. We are real Muslims.

How many fighters do you have?

I cannot tell you the number of our fighters exactly, but it is clear that we are winning every single attack and we control from Mogadishu to Harardhere. Through that, you can get a better picture about our Mujahiddin.

How many Americans do you have in your ranks? Can you confirm that Abu Mansour al-Amriki is among you?

We do not say this is an American, this is a Somali, this is an Arab. We are all Muslims, mujahidiin, we do not discriminate against the mujahiddin, this is the idea of the kuffar, this is an American, that is a Jew, those are Europeans. They are Muslims and mujahiddin.

About al-Amriki, during a time of training or special operation, we usually call any person who has lived in America or is a citizen of America al-Amriki. We also use this name to give high morale to those who are from America, but there is no specific person that we call by that name.

Have you allied with the pirates as some media reports claim?

We do not know who you are talking about when you say pirates, but if you mean those whom we have removed from the base of Haradhere, you can know that we criticize what they do as being against Islamic law.

Are you afraid of American helicopter strikes?

The American government will do many attacks against Islam, as they have tried to remove us and others. Only Allah can remove us. America cannot remove anything. They are enemy of Allah, and they will taste his punishment if they don't ask for forgiveness.

Do you plan to attack the United States?

Regarding attacks in the USA, it depends on our special political officers who deal with the American government. So if politically we think it will be successful and secure, we will do everything that we can do against the American government either inside America or abroad.

What do you mean 'our special political officers?' Do you have spies in the U.S. government?

We do not have political officers of ours employed by the U.S. government, but people who deal with the U.S. government's political affairs office for Somalia based in Nairobi under the U.S. Embassy. They do implement our political plans in order for us to safeguard our supporters based abroad in Kenya and the USA.

I myself came to power in al-Shebab backed by Somalilanders and members of the Somali National Movement who wanted to implement the tenets of the SNM's foundation. The Somaliland officials have close contacts with U.S. officials based in Nairobi. We learn from afar what the American government is doing or planning to do in Somalia, and always we maintain our interest in the safety of our supporters and members living abroad.

I would like to end this interview but there is something else I want to say. The establishment of al-Ithihad, and later al-Shabab, is based on an ideology rooted in the Irir tribe and this ideology was that the Irir tribe should get an opportunity to rule Somalia, hence when we sat down and think about it, we found the best path to success was to use the Muslim religion as a tool in order for us to rule Somalia. This rule would prohibit any person belonging to the Darood clan from having a top position in the organization except as simple fighters. This idea was backed by the rulers of the Somali National Movement, the rulers of Somaliland, because they wanted to rule all of Somalia. I as the leader of al-Shabab do not represent a Muslim community but I represent the Irir community, the tribes of Issak and Hawiye. And as far as we succeed to rule Somalia under Islamic law, we are going to do that. By using the Islamic religion as a tool, we want to rule Somalia and protect from any Darood- formed government in Somalia.

Comments

[Hasan Samatar]

Nick,

I read your so-called 'interview' and I can assure you with 100 % certainty that is a fraudulent fiction. The only reason your 'interview' and 'scoop' is getting any circulation is because of the Time magazine 'branding'.

In the event that you plan to concoct more stories that serve the imperial war-mongering machine, it would behoove you to know that there are eagle-eyed observers on the Interwebs like B/AfricaComments and Professor Michael Weinstein of Purdue University who are ready to call BS when they see it.

Note: It is very possible that you are a victim of an elaborate prank where warlord supporters with an axe to grind lured you in with some 'juicy scoop-y bait'(Hey, guess what, Great American Journalist…….. Godane wants to give YOU an interview!!)

Tricking naive Western journalists into pushing a self-serving narrative is something of a pastime among the throngs of disenfranchised Somali 'elite' in Nairobi(read: warlord supporters who live off the largesse of the international community, and in return, pledge their allegiance to serve their foreign masters) but still, judging by the overall pro-American 'editorial' bent of your ‘journalism’, it would not be surprising if this fraudulent reporting was on the scale of Judith Miller’s deliberate drumbeat for imperial war.

For definitive proof that this interview is a fraud, just read the last paragraph and try not to laugh out loud. Either Nick is a bad imitation of Judith Miller, or he is a incredibly naive journalist who has been bamboozled and taken for a fast ride by some of the Somali Warlords who are suffering exile in Nairobi after they have been chased out of Somalia by Al-Shabaab.

[Mogadishu Man]

Nick,

I have been living in Mogadishu for quite some time now, and have, over time, learnt quite a few things about life in Mogadishu and the situation on the ground.

Throughout my stay, I have been following the Somali as well as the international coverage of events from my dungeon in Mogadishu, and often adding in some observations in my blog, but when I cam across your article in TIME, I was quite perplexed – not much by the content but rather by the flagrant disregard for journalistic integrity.

I am more than certain that two of your recent articles on Somalia are fabricated, namely:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2013649,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2021767,00.html

which begs the questions, how many more are?

The leader of Al-Shabab has never given an interview to any journalist in Somalia, let alone the western world, and is a man known to deliver his message through the use of audio recordings. So for you to say that you have had an interview with him mars not only your integrity as a journalist but also the reputation of the publication you write for.

In one of your earlier articles as well, linked above, you mentioned that you have had an interview with Ali Mohamoud Rage, the rebel group's official spokesman, which too was an appalling attempt at fabrication.

Come on Nick. We do not assume that all journalists are impartial, nor we don't expect them to be political eunuchs who simply narrate events and have no political outlook; rather they have a viewpoint and based on their sound judgment as journalists we expect them to provide us with a balanced piece of information. There is a great difference between propaganda and news!

We do not expect journalists to fabricate stories. You should rise above the personal perspective and aim at writing something convincing so as not to insult the intelligence of your readers.

As a favour from a fellow journalist, should you wish to get more information regarding the events in Mogadishu, contact me on mogadishuman [at] yahoo.com

Regards,
MM

[mohamoud]

hey hey hey,

come on guys, a fellow of journalist succeeded to interview godane, who ever spoke to medias either local or international, some one claiming the interview is fake and imposible. very sorry for the mind intelligent of this person which is below 0, negative of 70. things you cannot understand try to know it, ask people who knew more then about consult with experts, but do not make your own decission and start complaining what you do not know and have no experience. hey hassen re-exercise your mind, very sorry for your intelligent which is below zero. also mogadishu guy it is good for you to have international contact, but there is no any propoganda included in the interview or the related stories. this is not a problems of only these two somali guys, but it is a common of all the somalis except of a small number, for misunderstanding and deciding by their own misunderstanding.

[NW]

I am not based in Mogadishu or Nairobi, but I must say I was startled to read this post of yours. I cannot believe how the supposed interview ends. It does not tie in with what precedes it, not does it have the ring of plausibility. If I am right, I am truly shocked and disappointed.

[NW]

Something else I notice (which runs the risk of being corrected now that it is mentioned), but on my computer screen at least, it is clear that in the last paragraph of this supposed interview, all the text that follows on from the sentence "I would like to end this interview but there is something else I want to say." has a different look to it. It is the same font face and font size, but looks darker, suggesting cut and paste.

Nick: these are serious charges and I don't make my them lightly. I would like to see your response - on your blog. Thanks.